September 7, 2022

Finding Joy in Your Career with Tugba Delaire

I'm Melissa
I'm a Career and Leadership Coach for Women in Pharma/Biotech. I've been where you are, and I help you create the career you want without working more hours or settling for good enough.
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Join me as I talk to Tugba Delaire with Johnson and Johnson about her journey to finding joy in her career. 

Tugba hired me as her coach earlier this year and since has been promoted and moved into a new role as a people manager….but this isn’t what she says is her biggest change or transformation.

If you’ve ever thought you’d like to have more joy in your career or if it is possible to take a career that is good and make it even better, this is for you.

Note: The views and opinions that are expressed in this episode are Tugba’s and do not necessarily reflect the views or policies of any company in the Johnson and Johnson family of companies.

What You’ll Learn

Tugba’s career development journey that led her to say “work doesn’t feel like work anymore”

The tipping point that led Tugba to seek coaching

Advice Tugba wish she had earlier in her career

The difference between coaching and mentorship

How you can take a good career and make it joyful without changing companies

Featured in This Episode

Connect with Tugba on LinkedIn
The Genius Zone by Gay Hendricks
Schedule a consultation for 1-1 coaching with Melissa

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[00:00:04.090] – Melissa Lawrence

Welcome to Navigating Your Career, the only podcast that blends personal development, professional skills and psychology to help you get happy at work and live the life you want. If you want to stop feeling stuck and start are feeling better, this is the place for you. I’m your host, Melissa Lawrence. Let’s get started. Hello and welcome to this week’s episode of Navigating Your Career.

[00:00:33.210] – Melissa Lawrence

Today I have a very special guest on the podcast, Tuba Delaire. Now, Tugba is a client of mine. We work together for six months. She works with Johnson and Johnson and she has had so much growth. She exceeded all of her goals. And I thought that it would be really helpful for you to hear her story, to hear where she started, where she ended her view on career development. And she’s even sharing some advice that she wished that she had earlier in her career, a book she recommends. There are a ton of great takeaways in here that you can use to leverage in your own career. So I know you’re going to get a lot out of it. Now, before we dig into it, I do want to say that the views and opinions that are expressed in this episode are Tugba’s and do not necessarily reflect the views or policies of any company in the Johnson and Johnson family of companies.

[00:01:30.330] – Melissa Lawrence

All right, let’s go ahead and get started. Hello everyone. So today I have Tugba with me. She is a client of mine and she achieved so many results in our time together from knowing what she wanted. She earned a promotion, but even more so with her transformation in her mindset and how she approaches her career. And I think it’s really exciting story. I think her approach on development and how she pushed herself to grow is going to be really motivational and inspirational for everyone to hear. And so I really wanted to have her on the podcast to share her story with you. So I know we’re also going to have some tangible tips and some takeaways that you can leverage for your own career. It is going to be so good. So without further ado, I would like to welcome to the episode today. Hello.

[00:02:27.370] – Tugba Delaire

Hi. It’s such a pleasure to be here with you today. So I’m so honored, so excited that you invited me to your podcast. So, yeah, thanks a lot for the opportunity and just maybe a little intro of myself. You did a very good job to do it, but just maybe for the extent. I’m a pharmacist, so I’m working with the pharmaceutical industry and currently actually medical device industry. So I have PhD in pharmaceuticals with MBA and Master’s in Quality Management. So I have 15 years of healthcare industry experience within pharma, biotech and medical devices mentioned earlier. So my passion, my relief focus is quality management. So I’m working for the last four years within Johnson and Johnson. So I’m really excited about as mentioned, quality. And in my latest current role now, I’m able to also combine the customer commercial experience that I had early in my career with quality. So I’m working within commercial quality department, which is such an inspiring opportunity for me as well.

[00:03:45.970] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, and where are you based? Do you want to share that? I know, but do you want to share with the list?

[00:03:50.080] – Tugba Delaire

No, I miss that one. That’s true. So I’m based in Germany, actually, my background is a little bit mixed, let me say. So I’m originally Turkish and married to an American husband. So we lived in Turkey first and then moved to France and currently living in Germany. So yeah, it’s a mixture of all cultures. I have a son of eight years old, so yeah, I love this mixture because that gave him a lot of opportunity to be able to even speak those four languages. So, yeah, if you ask me where am I from, I might hesitate to tell you. But yeah, I’m all of these cultures.

[00:04:32.470] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, that’s great. And I think actually that could be something we can maybe talk about too a little bit, is what it’s like to grow your career as a mom and as a partner and you’re living in different areas and then obviously we coach together and you’re in another country and so we went through that experience together. So I guess if I could pivot a little bit and just ask you something about that. When it comes to balancing all of that that you just talked about, what do you think has been if there has been like one thing that’s kind of carried you through or motivated you or that you had in mind as you made all of these decisions and balancing being a mom and being a wife and working on your career and then also moving as you did.

[00:05:17.350] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, I think the most, I would say impactful approach was that being able to prioritize first because are you going to prioritize the work or family? Of course it will be changing over time or day over month, so it’s never the same, but finding that balance, right, being able to establish this life balance. So I think I’m very lucky because I’m working also in an environment, in a company where flexibility is very well appreciated. So really, you know, go with this opportunity, use that opportunity to be able to even squeeze those things within the day where I get to pick up my son sometimes in the middle of the day, but I also connect afterwards to finish my work. So I take also some time with my husband. So I try to really be flexible and manage the schedule accordingly. And I think this is one thing. And also having support right, from your family, from your partner is another important aspect of it. So I’m also very thankful for that to my husband. So basically it’s really been able to open minded and adjust yourself and do not be so structured around it.

[00:06:40.870] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, and I think a lot of people that listen to this episode probably resonate with the high achieving woman. And I think the biggest culprit when it came to that work life balance was more you than your company’s requirements. Right. Like, when you talk about wanting to be the best and feeling like there might be something you’re missing and wanting, making sure that you have a good reputation and enjoying your work at the same time, it can be hard to kind of shut that off. So we’ll talk about that a little bit because I want to frame this from not only the perspective of the journey that you had in coaching and kind of what led you to coaching and the growth that you had there, but then also your approach on career development and what you’re doing now and what you hope to do in the future. So if we were to take you back to before we started working together, before you decide, before you decided to hire me as a coach, what were things like for you before we started? How did you think or feel about your career?

[00:07:44.960] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, so at the time we met, I was feeling like at the point where I need a change. I was extremely happy. I want to also express that to audience that I was already very fulfilled in terms of the company I work with, the team manager I was working with. So that wasn’t really the issue. But I had come to a point where I needed to use my skills in a better way as a next step, right? Like take the leadership role. So I had this feeling, this gut feeling that was telling me repeatedly that you’re ready for the next leadership role, so we just need to take that next step. But I didn’t know where to go. I didn’t know where to start. So that was kind of challenging because it’s a big change. Right. So I really needed I was seeking for guidance and also in terms of the work life balance, I wasn’t doing that well. I needed some strategies to really improve myself in that area as well. Because sometimes feeling myself focusing on one thing and I just realized that I have to do this for all my life. So I need to find a better strategy on how to handle things where I could be successful in every area of my life, relationship, work, my health.

[00:09:29.350] – Tugba Delaire

So I also needed a bit more guidance about work life balance. So, yeah, basically that was where I have been when I met with you.

[00:09:43.450] – Melissa Lawrence

So what do you think the tipping point was? So some people might listen to that and say, okay, you were fulfilled with your company. You liked the kind of industry or area that you were in, you liked your team, yet you still sought out someone and paid them a good amount of money to help you. So what do you think was the tipping point or that edge that you had that made you not settle with good enough and to make that investment in yourself?

[00:10:13.150] – Tugba Delaire

I would say I think timing was one thing in terms of I wouldn’t say age, but maybe the duration and the position where I have been. So I think there is usually an amount of time that people have in their mind. Three years, I guess, the average. So maybe that was one aspect of it. And the second was that the personality. Right. We also made an assessment when I start with you and we came up in my personality that I like to grow. So this is one of my triggers, one of my purpose in life, learning. So my learning curve was maybe not as high as I expected from myself. I think it was already very well because I was in a position where I was exposed so many different tasks, projects, but still maybe ambitious person. That wasn’t somehow enough for me. So I needed this change. That was also the tipping point for me to really take the action.

[00:11:28.070] – Melissa Lawrence

And I know that you had worked with a coach or coaches in the past. So when you thought about making the transition to working with me and doing the work that we had identified kind of early on in our coaching arrangement or in that first kind of consultation call, was there anything that drew you to me specifically?

[00:11:50.090] – Tugba Delaire

So it was kind of very, I would say mystical. Magical Harvey Met because, as mentioned, I had already gone through a process of hiring a coach. But in that process I noticed that it wasn’t responding in terms of my speed. Right. I really wanted a quick change. Of course, the conversations were so valuable, but maybe it was a bit casual. So I was looking for something a bit more structured, a bit about maybe structured, I would say. And that’s what was one thing that really captured my attention. I saw your posts on LinkedIn that immediately captured my attention. I was watching you every day and checking your post and yeah, but I was like saying to myself, that’s too late, I already made the choice. But somehow a voice inside of me again push me. Let me just talk to her. At least maybe I’ll get some inspiration and maybe in the future I could work with her. So I couldn’t just help myself. It was resonating with me, what you were costing, saying, and after the first conversation with you, I said, yes, this is the coach I want to work with.

[00:13:15.280] – Melissa Lawrence

Yes, I appreciate you saying that, and I think that’s a really good takeaway for everyone, that it just often takes that first step. And I think that’s something that you learned throughout the coaching process. It’s something I’ve definitely learned for myself. But just that it kind of can feel scary. Like when you said, oh, I already made this decision. The cars are already going down the road. There’s nothing I can do now. But it really is in your power to make a change and just taking one small step towards anything that you want, like applying for the job, having a difficult conversation, reaching out to a coach. It just takes that first step to get going, and then you can figure out what to do next. Instead of making it into some really big thing that you have to figure out all at once, you can just take it one step at a time. So I have another question about your decision to work with me. And you can tell me the truth on this. I don’t think I’ve ever asked you this before, but did you have any concerns before you made the decision to work with me?

[00:14:13.530] – Melissa Lawrence

And it could be about me personally, it could be about the process or even just investing. Was there anything that you had to overcome that you were kind of doubtful questioning yourself about?

[00:14:23.770] – Tugba Delaire

Of course I would start saying that. So my concerns was more like about myself. So I was sure that the process would work, but I was just not maybe 100% sure about up my commitment and dedication. So it was a very intense program for me compared to what I was exposed to before. It was six months program and meeting every week. I was thinking, what am I going to have every week to talk about? Am I going to have a topic? What if I don’t have? Or what if I don’t feel motivated that day to talk? What if I don’t feel committed? Can I really be that dedicated to that schedule? What if I get discouraged? What I changed my mind that I don’t want to, I don’t know, change anymore? So I was feeling like I’m stuck afterwards. What if I feel stuck that I have to do this like an obligation, right?

[00:15:30.580] – Melissa Lawrence

Like, I like her now, what if I don’t like her later? Exactly. It’s great.

[00:15:37.650] – Tugba Delaire

And I think I was also a part in that, that I was sure that the process will work. Maybe I was afraid of the change. I was fearful that what if the change changes everything in my life? Like messes in my life, fear of this unknown uncertainty. So this survival instinct I would say were one of my biggest concerns.

[00:16:03.280] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, I think a lot of people go through that when it comes to this or really anything. And what you said about how it could change your life. And sometimes we think about just the positive outcome and achieving our goals, but sometimes there is other change we have to manage. Like your partner, for example. What if you not to add more concerns for people, but what if you continue to grow and you outgrow your partner? You worry? Will they still love you or will you still feel connected to them if you’re growing and they’re not? And a lot of things can come up when you think about changing and disrupting your routine. So how would you say that you overcame that? Because you obviously said, yes, we did coach together, and those were a lot of really valid concerns. So how did you overcome them?

[00:16:47.800] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, so I needed to go through a lot and self reflect right when I was making that decision, to really return back to my values and what do I really want? So am I afraid of all this change? So really ask those questions step by step. What is making me, what is blocking me, what is stopping me to really go deep in that sense of fear and try to understand it? So I went through my inside and asked those questions, and just even not thinking about working with you was making me sorry, I’ve said. And thinking about on the other side, working and continuing with we was so energizing, so inspiring. So I just couldn’t really help this feeling of saying yes and being ready for this change. Actually, it resonated so much with me. And as I said, I felt so excited. So it’s time. It’s really the moment, it’s the right person. So yeah, just jump in the cold water.

[00:18:01.870] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah. It sounds like it’s just a leap of faith. Right. And I think that that’s a misconception that some people have as they wait to feel ready, like everything is going to be 100%, and then they’ll do whatever it is, they’re trying to decide where really a lot of the big growth happens by making those decisions that you’re unsure about because you haven’t done them before. And to get different results, you have to do different things. So you’re never going to be 100% when you’re doing something new. And I think people don’t realize that or sometimes forget it when they’re in that kind of fight or flight, I’m scared right now type of mindset. Yes. If we were to fast forward six months, so that was kind of everything that led you to us working together. And if we were to go forward six months a little bit more now, you’ve gone through the whole program. What is your career like now?

[00:18:51.470] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, so through this process, I change a lot. Right. I would admit that. So it went step by step. Maybe it’s hard to realize along the way, but you have a very well structured process. This is one of my reasons that I wanted to work with you, that you make an assessment in the beginning and then at the end, you have so many criteria related to career path, career fulfillment, work life balance, the personal development goals. So I had those goals and I had a rating in the beginning and at the end, all those goals, I exceeded all my goals, actually. In a very good rating. So I feel very satisfied, fulfilled. And the best part is that the work doesn’t feel like work anymore, right. So it’s really integrated in my life. It’s part of my life and I’m not afraid of Mondays anymore. It just feels like, yeah, it’s part of the life and it’s a reason for me to wake up in the bed from the bed in the morning and just go through my day with passion and with inspiration. In the beginning, of course, I was also in a stage where I was transitioning, changing roles.

[00:20:15.940] – Tugba Delaire

So that also came at the same time and I think that was coincidence, right, so that was also a message, I would say. It was like but from the universe that we need to work together. So you also have been my coach for my on boarding process to my new role. So new leadership role. So I really had a very smooth, very flawless onboarding process. It just worked so well and I’m really so happy that I made this choice.

[00:20:52.710] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, you gave me chills when you said work doesn’t feel like work anymore. Oh my God, that’s so great. Yeah. And so for people that might not know some of those details, so you moved into a people management role. So that was something that was on your goal list, was to lead people, so you were able to move into a position where you could do that. And then obviously there was that onboarding process, the work life balance and getting through that. And then how do you think your confidence has changed as far as how you look at your career and look at yourself now?

[00:21:24.090] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, I mean, it has been a big transformation, right. In terms of how I see myself and how even my behaviors also I feel like change in terms of self confidence. It really had a transformation. The way that I express myself, the courage to go through tough conversations I cannot compare. And now I’m able to talk to big audiences, join such meetings without really having so much hesitation that I used to have before I’m even doing this podcast. And I can’t believe I’m invited to this podcast. So I think that even is a good example, right, that I didn’t say no and I’m just really happy to be here and express myself that I would never imagine before speaking the truth, right. Being authentic. So that really helped me also a lot, the process that you suggested we work together to improve in those areas as well. So yeah, what more I can say.

[00:22:42.970] – Melissa Lawrence

So what would you say? I know we had a lot of goals that we worked on together and you mentioned that you’ve exceeded them all, which is amazing. But what would you say is the biggest transformation or change that you experience from the coaching process? And then if relevant, like, how did that impact maybe your partner or you as a parent or just overall other areas of your life outside of your work.

[00:23:08.140] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah. So I mentioned authenticity. So I really feel like I’m myself, I’m being myself, I’m not being someone else. And I don’t have to be over prepared, overthinking when I’m going to reaprooject meeting. And that’s also valid for in my personal life. So I’m able to even better communicate with my husband, having those sometimes difficult conversations we used to ignore. Right. Like, okay, that’s an issue for me, but maybe I should just not talk about it, not create any conflict. But now I’m able to really even go through such tough conversations just to improve things. So I feel like I’m able to speak my truth in a powerful way due to this mindset change and authenticity that came along with this process.

[00:24:10.270] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah. And how do you think that? Because to me that’s huge. That’s a big part of why I do what I do is to help people do just that. To be able to be themselves and advocate for themselves and feel good about who they are while also excelling at work and having the work life balance they want and kind of doing those things in tandem. So now that you have that, now that you have that confidence and that self advocacy, how do you think your career future is going to be different?

[00:24:38.410] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, so it really shifted my mind in terms of what my potential is. And now I have a belief that nothing is impossible as long as I have it in my goal list and I plan and I work. I keep walking towards these goals constantly. I will accomplish. Maybe it will take some time, depending on my motivation, how fast I am and everything, but it’s possible. So I don’t have any more this fear of that’s not for me. I know that goal is too big for me. So it’s just really a matter of strategy, dedication, resilience, and you will get there. So it’s not about being smart, right? It’s all about having this growth mindset and embracing the change and moving forward.

[00:25:34.150] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah. And you’ve gotten such great feedback too, if I can say, about your role and the work that you’re doing. And it seems like your future just continues to be really bright with the company that you love working for. And that’s only being amplified.

[00:25:49.270] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, definitely. It’s reflects, I said, in every area, so even in the onboarding process. So it helped a lot to be able to get very positive feedback from my stakeholders, from my manager, so yeah, that was only positive.

[00:26:10.150] – Melissa Lawrence

So how do you view career development now? And is it different than how you viewed it before?

[00:26:18.430] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, so as mentioned earlier, I had this hesitation in my mind that what if this goal is too big for me? What if I cannot accomplish? So it really cleaned up all these blockages in my mind. So I also loved a lot in your process that during the conversations we had, you were so talented to identify such thoughts, right? Maybe limiting beliefs that oh, do you think you think that way? So I wasn’t even aware of it that I have this belief in my mind, right? So you made me aware of such beliefs and shifted them. You also taught me processes, how to shift them. So with this freedom of mind, I think I really feel that everything is possible.

[00:27:18.970] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, so it sounds like because this is a big part of coaching for people that haven’t experienced before is by having someone that can observe your thinking and see where you’re tripping yourself up. Because in our own mind it’s really hard to see that because we have our own brain justifying our own thoughts and our own beliefs. So would you say then, when you look at your career development now versus before, it sounds like before your career development was more like you thought the career development pathway was a little bit more tangible around like coaches and courses and books and things like that to develop your career. And now you have this added element of the mindset work and seeing how your thoughts play into things and how building confidence makes a difference and being able to be authentic makes a difference. And that is deeper than just what you can maybe consume academically.

[00:28:10.210] – Tugba Delaire

Oh, totally. It resonates a lot. I remember even asking in the beginning to you that can you suggest me a book about this topic? And I kept asking you books because I was thinking that everything is written and I need to really there’s one rule that I have to follow. But after along the way, you also reminded me this a lot, that it’s just your inner guidance, right? Just trust in yourself and make the decision at the end. Of course, books are good podcasts, everything is great to get inspired, but it’s not written. Everything is not written there. So we also need to follow our own guidance based on our beliefs, our values, our purpose. So also trust in this guidance that comes from you and do not seek it outside. So that was also a great shift in my mind and I need to trust myself in that sense more.

[00:29:12.070] – Melissa Lawrence

That’s a great example, I think. I remember I asked you why do you think you need a book? Let’s talk about why you think you need that in order to make a decision or in order to take the action that you want to like you’re enough and let’s talk about the skills you already have. But that’s a really good point because I think a lot of people go to external validation, to wanting something external, to tell them that their way is the right way or that they’re on the right path. And part of this is learning to get in touch with your own intuition we did human design, I want to.

[00:29:53.500] – Tugba Delaire

Also talk about it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that was amazing. You surprised me a lot with this human design because I was also, in that time, a bit more into spirituality and reading books about that, and I was even curious on that topic. So when you talk about that human design, wow, that’s so exciting. I really want to learn and is this going to help for my career? Right. And you did it so well that you helped me to understand myself why I make some decisions the way I do. It was a great tool that was very surprising, but so helpful.

[00:30:39.350] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah. And it’s a tool that I don’t use with everyone. So if anyone is listening to this that is a client pastor present, they’re like, what is this human design? You can send me a message. No, it is a really great tool. It is a little woo, as super said. So it is kind of connecting the universe and astrology and kabbalah and these different ways of looking at how the universe was designed at the moment you were born and what that tells you about how you show up naturally versus how you’re showing up due to social conditioning and other outside influences. So it helps you understand who you’re really intended to be about your purpose. It helps you understand the way if you’re very emotional or how you handle conflict, it helps you understand why those things are there and tap into some potential that you might not know that you had. So it’s really useful from that perspective to get to know yourself better and feel more authentic if you can lean into that woo a little bit. So I’m glad that we brought that up. So would you say that’s the thing that surprised you about working with me?

[00:31:46.790] – Melissa Lawrence

Because that was the next thing I was going to ask you is if there was anything that surprised you or what surprised you most about working with me.

[00:31:52.820] – Tugba Delaire

That was one of the surprises that you had for me. And second one was another tool that you use. Mindset Model was so effective that I was surprised also to see how simple a tool can be, but how effective also it can be. So you could maybe explain it better, but it’s really a process of looking objectively to your thoughts, feelings, actions, results, and assessing the current situation and then even creating a new reality right. Based on this situation to really target where you want to go. And that’s very helpful to shift some beliefs that you’re not happy with yourself, but there’s a way to change them. Going through step by step all these layers of feelings, thoughts, actions. Probably you can explain this better than me, but I’m still using it and it’s extremely helpful in every area of my life.

[00:32:56.170] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, it’s a powerful tool. I always think the ones that are the most simple are. The ones that are most powerful because the ones that are complicated often don’t get used because they’re complicated. So that’s why I like disc. It’s why I like this mindset model. The mindset model is really grounded in cognitive behavioral therapy. That’s really where the basis comes from. And so it’s adapted from that, but it’s really a way for you to understand the way that your brain is operating and kind of the neuroscience and psychology behind how you process information. So it gives you insight and awareness into your thoughts that you’re having and how those are connected to feelings, how those are connected to the behaviors that you have, and then how your thoughts really connect to the results that you create for yourself. So there’s a saying that I don’t recall who says it, but it’s on memes everywhere that I’ve seen a million times in my life that’s whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right. And that’s really part of what this mindset model shows you, is how your thoughts are connected to your results and how you can also shift that to create a different results.

[00:34:03.340] – Melissa Lawrence

So once you have that awareness, then you can say, okay, this thought and these feelings and these behaviors are getting this result. What would I have to change to get a different result? And then you can learn to practice that and gradually change your behaviors and learn to manage your mind and change your thoughts so that your default thinking isn’t the thinking that is holding you back.

[00:34:22.770] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Highly recommended. So powerful.

[00:34:29.130] – Melissa Lawrence

So what would you say to someone who maybe is not familiar with coaching or hasn’t invested in their own development before, and so they’re hearing this from you and they’re thinking, okay, that’s great for her. She probably has a million dollars in the bank. I don’t know about this. What would you say to them?

[00:34:49.000] – Tugba Delaire

Okay, so I think what I realized is that I really need a mirror. And we all need a mirror, right, to reflect on ourselves, because, as mentioned, sometimes we are missing the full picture. So quoting is a very efficient way of discovering yourself and yourself or recognizing your limiting beliefs and shifting also them to be a better person. Therefore it was a big investment, I would admit, but it was the best investment of my life. I would highly recommend this because it’s so powerful and there is nothing better right. To shift your limiting beliefs. So even then, you have more capacity to receive, to be more abundant in terms of financially or in terms of taxes, carrier relationships. So I don’t think this is comparable to anything.

[00:35:50.250] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, I don’t know that I could have said it better myself. I think that’s really great insight, and it’s something that people don’t know until they experience it. Right? Because unless you’ve worked with coaches that have helped you change your mindset and helped you with career strategy and kind of have that tangible approach before then. It sounds a little bit maybe unbelievable to some people to say, I can change your mind, right? There has to be some level of open mind in this too, right? To say there are things that you’re thinking or believing that you don’t even know that you are, and that I can help you cover what those are. I can understand that. That can be a tall order for some, for sure. It wasn’t until I experienced it myself and that I hired my first coach and started coaching other people that I really saw the power in it. But it is something that you have to kind of take that leap to try. And I would say you also have to make sure that you find the right coach for you because there’s a lot of different coaches out there.

[00:36:56.040] – Melissa Lawrence

So make sure that you’re finding someone that you resonate with, that you can be vulnerable with, and so that you can uncover some of those things. Because a lot of it is questioning things that you have maybe thought your whole life.

[00:37:08.410] – Tugba Delaire

Definitely. But it said it’s like a cleaning process, right? Cleaning all the layers in your mind that is blocking you, stopping you from achieving those goals. And sometimes it’s painful, right? You need a surgeon to do that. You need someone else. You cannot just do it by yourself. So that’s why you need someone to reflect on you. And that’s why coaching and mentoring, this is so powerful.

[00:37:39.970] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, I think it brought to mind something I saw on LinkedIn last week, where there was this visual of how when you read books, not to read books, but you read books and do courses and things like that, that you have to apply them in order to create the change. And the thing that I would add to that, because I know a lot of people have a lot of books they buy and they put them on bookshelves and they need to get to them, is that if you don’t address the foundation, you’re not going to create the change that you want to see. That’s why coaching can also be really helpful, because you can find all the frameworks, right? You heard some of the tools we talked about. You can look them up, but it’s really the application and the integration into your life and then evaluating how it goes. Like, if we think about how you apply disk in your career, how you use your human design, your onboarding process, working with new stakeholders. It’s one thing to get the strategy and say, okay, here’s what you should do. It’s another to go out and try it, hit a roadblock and then have to come back and be like, okay, well, that didn’t work now, and not give up and keep going, or even just to try something new to begin with.

[00:38:45.400] – Melissa Lawrence

I know I’m not the only person that’s attended a conference or something that you walked away thinking, that was amazing, I learned so much. But you didn’t actually change your behavior.

[00:38:54.850] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, it sometimes stays limited. Right. So you really need also this follow up, someone watching you to say, did you do your homework? Because sometimes this is all we need. Even we are motivated, we are not able to do it on ourselves. And it’s a process, right? It’s a healing process. Let’s say if you also add some spirituality to it, it’s healing in your carrier. Right? So this is what mentors do, like heal you from all the issues you have. Because we all have this potential. All we need to do is just bring it out, right? Let it shine and yeah, this is what you guys do. And thanks for that.

[00:39:38.530] – Melissa Lawrence

So what would you say because you brought up mentoring? How would you say that mentoring and coaching are different?

[00:39:44.890] – Tugba Delaire

Yes, I think I might not be able to differentiate it as perfectly as you do. I think maybe I make the mistake of using this word right same time. So I would reflect back the question. Maybe I didn’t work on that lesson so well to make the differentiation.

[00:40:05.420] – Melissa Lawrence

No, I think there can be some overlap. I think you’re absolutely right. I just was curious if you had worked with a mentor and then working with a coach, if you saw a difference, or if you were just using coach and mentor interchangeably.

[00:40:18.220] – Tugba Delaire

I think I do that. Yeah. Okay.

[00:40:21.730] – Melissa Lawrence

Because people do ask me that sometimes what’s the difference between coaching and mentoring? And I think that where there’s overlap is sometimes you can get people that are coaches as your mentors. So, for example, I used to do mentoring, or I do to some extent within women and bio. But it’s different when you have someone at work that say, has achieved a level of success that you haven’t or maybe has a skill that you haven’t. And you’re meeting with them to learn from them, from their experience. They’re not necessarily that mirror. So they’re not trained in coaching and helping you overcome limiting beliefs. They may not be providing career development strategy or doing assessments with you. You’re not necessarily working on overall career goals. It may be you’re working with them because you’re trying to increase some certain acumen or you’re looking for a sponsor in the workplace to help you get new opportunities or visibility. And the ownership is really on the mendy to really drive that relationship and to ask the questions where with the coach, the coach is asking the question and the coach is guiding the mentee or the coaches. Now I’m using that to reach their goals.

[00:41:33.920] – Melissa Lawrence

So to me, coaching is more strategic. It’s more of a science and a structure, and you have a defined outcome where mentorship is more of an allyship.

[00:41:43.690] – Tugba Delaire

Okay. So it could be also in different areas. I believe mentorship. Right. In life, it doesn’t have to be only career development, but could be anything. And coaching, it sounds like a bit more technical, a bit more specific, right? Yeah. Maybe to improve a skill or to be successful in a specific type of project. This is how I understood from what you yeah, definitely.

[00:42:08.190] – Melissa Lawrence

Because coaching is like so the premise of coaching is that the answers lie within you. So when you talk about how you’re more authentic, you feel more confident. It’s not because I changed you to be someone I thought you should be or told you you should be different. It’s because we elevated and uncovered who you really are and built the skill of you going out and being that person without fear of what people think and without doubting yourself.

[00:42:35.710] – Tugba Delaire

I like this so much. Yeah, it’s perfect. It’s authenticity, definition.

[00:42:41.230] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah. And so we’re a mentor is more you’re leveraging their experience. So it might be if let’s say we were to get together and you were to say, okay, I’m running into this difficult situation at work, what should I do? Right. Or what books do you recommend? Right. Instead of mirroring it back and say, okay, let’s talk about why you need this, or let’s look at these goals that you have, does this align with this and helping you discover who you really are and how you want to handle things in a way that you feel good about instead of just leveraging what I’ve done and what worked for me.

[00:43:15.380] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, I’ll take a note not to forget.

[00:43:18.650] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, that was probably the longest Q and A, but that’s probably necessary, right, to tease out what is coaching and mentorship. So that’s good. Okay, so can you share with us what your current career development goals are?

[00:43:33.370] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, so I would say that I already reached out to the leadership role that I was seeking for in a department that I’m really passionate about in a great team with an amazing manager. So I feel like I am where I need to be right now. But of course, in feature, my goal is really to complete my onboarding process flowlessly and establish myself within my new role as a new manager and continue really working on this direction. And as a next step, I really want to expand my impact, reach out as much as people possible, continue learning and sharing my experiences and values. So also even develop those soft skills where I can share within the company, even as a coach, as a mentor, to share those experiences so other people can also benefit from it.

[00:44:37.810] – Melissa Lawrence

That’s great. And what is I like to ask everyone that comes on the podcast this question what is one piece of advice that you wish you had earlier in your career?

[00:44:48.790] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah, I would say that I wish I had known that there are some shortcuts, there are ways to make things a bit more efficient. And I was seeking those solutions by myself because also at the time when I was at the university, I was graduating, there was not such a culture of mentoring or going asking people. It was so rare, so not normal. Right. So I just choose a way of trying myself trial and making errors, trying to find my own way what I really like, because I didn’t have much idea in the beginning, so I wish I was directed from the beginning to know myself better, to understand my values better, that I could maybe spend less time on that and come to a different maybe level right now. But it’s also a journey, right. Everything that I went through taught me something and improve me. So I’m not regretful for that. But, yeah, the advice I wish I had early in my career, that there is someone else holding my hand and explain me a little bit more efficient way what my choices are and what I’m capable of doing.

[00:46:20.110] – Melissa Lawrence

Yeah, I think that’s something that a lot of us struggle with is I think there’s almost like a pride element with it. That’s how I’ve experienced. Some of my other clients have experienced it where it’s like, you just want to persevere and figure it out on your own and like, you can do it, you don’t need help kind of thing. Then you realize, like, oh, I could have just done this, and it actually didn’t bruise my pride and got my results faster.

[00:46:45.490] – Tugba Delaire


[00:46:49.010] – Melissa Lawrence

So is there anything else that you want to mention today? I know we covered a lot, but is there anything that you want to talk about that we didn’t talk about?

[00:47:01.170] – Tugba Delaire

A thought just popped in my mind that you asked this question of what’s changed? So I love more. Right. I love more now at work, even in the meetings, in serious meetings, even just the joy comes up somehow. So I think that’s a great sign also showing that I am where I need to be. So all I want to say is thank you for that. It has been such a transformational journey with you. I’m so grateful for it.

[00:47:34.770] – Melissa Lawrence

It has been my pleasure.

[00:47:36.530] – Tugba Delaire

Yeah. And this book that you recommended, ms. Kilo Tone of Genius, I cannot just ignore that book. It really also helped me a lot. And thank you also for opening the doors to my zone of genius like indicated in this book. So as mentioned, I think it was the best investment that I have ever made. Thank you.

[00:48:01.950] – Melissa Lawrence

Thank you so much. So if people want to reach out to you after this, are you open to that on LinkedIn?

[00:48:07.920] – Tugba Delaire

Yes, of course. I’m accessible on LinkedIn. And wherever you post this, any question or any comment, I’m happy to follow up.

[00:48:20.120] – Melissa Lawrence

Okay, great. I’ll put your LinkedIn link in the show notes. If people want to reach out to you on LinkedIn and ask you any questions or just connect with you there. That’s all exciting.

[00:48:30.090] – Tugba Delaire


[00:48:31.170] – Melissa Lawrence

All right. Well, if there’s nothing else, we’ll go ahead and end this episode today.

[00:48:35.580] – Tugba Delaire

Thank you. It was such a pleasure. Bye. Bye.

[00:48:46.030] – Melissa Lawrence

Coaching with me is the best way to guarantee you get happy at work and achieve your career and life goals. Getting started is easy. Head over to to learn more and apply. It is the first step to get you from feeling stuck to knowing exactly what you want and have the tools to make it a reality. I will be by your side the entire way.

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